D: is Dafydd Fell, student at London School of Oriental and African Studies
B: is Ben Lin, Taiwanese Band of Holy Joy fan.
A: is Alfie Thomas

D: So how did you get involved with the band in the first place? It must be going back to the mid 80s.
A: I'd just left a band called the Ancient Britons, where I was the singer. We were playing the usual circuit, with a bit in Europe. It had a big brass section; it was quite a big band. So I was by myself and I was doing some recordings by myself, I had a pair of timpargi??, I started doing some solo stuff, with the timpargi, singing and playing the accordion. A friend of mine had just made a film and Johnny turned up with a couple of his mates. Johnny was the star of this film and they had done the music as well.
B: What year was that?
A: That was 86. He turned up with his mates and they all had skinhead cuts, all quite interesting and drunk. Johnny said, 'come and see my band, I've got a folk band'. At the time it was a bit outrageous to say you've got a folk band. At that time it was already called the Band of Holy Joy.
B: Was this after "Big Ship Sails"?
A: I think it was after Consumption. So I went to see them at Frith Street, they played about five gig down there, it's just a couple of streets from here, in a wine bar. It was really interesting. So I said to Johnny, 'could I support you next week', and he said yes. I played quite an odd set, screaming, playing the tims and doing a couple of songs on the accordion. It was a great night and at the time I was starting a club in Leicester Square, called Pravda. The first night we had an orchestra, which was the Chryslers, Chris was in the Chryslers. I said to Johnny, 'would you like to sing with the orchestra'. So we did some rehearsals, we did Consumption and with Malu we did that German song, I think it was on when "Stars Came Out to Play", by Marline Dietrich. It's fantastic and extremely out of tune, and passionate. Then the orchestra played the rest of the night and everyone was just waltzing. After that I didn't see Johnny for a bit. Then he called me about three months later and said come and join the band. That was because Max had left. Max had been playing the keyboards.
D: So at that time were you mainly playing accordion?
A: Yes. At that time the band, live, it was quite a sparse sound. It wasn't the big gig sound that we had later. We got a double bass player for "Manic Majestic".
D: I always feel that there's such a difference between "More Tales" and "Manic Majestic", it's as if it's two different bands.
A: Yes. The only thing that ever relates one album to the other is Johnny. Actually I was a real fan of the band, especially "Big Ship Sails", I still love that soundscape.
B: Is that the reason that you chose a lot of songs from "Big Ship Sails" in the three-night gig, especially on Saturday night?
A: Yes. I love "Boy Sailor". We're going to do some more of those in the next few gigs. I like "Manic, Majestic", but we've got a problem with the way those albums were recorded. It was a strange period in the music industry when everyone was experimenting with computerizing. If we did it now I think we'd mainly do it live, it'd be much more exciting.
D: Have you thought about doing a second live album?
A: Yes, we're going to, maybe a bit live. We've got another studio in Kings Cross, which we're going to set up as a place we can record live. Maybe we'll have a few people there. I prefer the live sound.
D: The band sounded even better at the 12 Bar than 93 Feet East.
A: We're happier, as we like the new bass player and Steve knows the vibe much more. That is something you're really relying on as the motor.
D: Was it hard actually getting the band back together? How did it actually come about?
A: We've seen Johnny constantly, apart from when I was away for a couple of years, and he's always going here there and everywhere, but we've always been in touch. I was doing music for a film about Wordsworth and Colleridge. So I said to Johnny why don't we do the Ancient Mariner. He said, 'Good idea, let's do it'. So we did it. We put some violin and accordions on it. Then he said I've got a couple of other songs I'd like to have a go at, and it just grew like that. The same day it occurred to us that this sounds like the Band of Holy Joy. So he said, shall we expand it?
D: Would this have been in 99?
A: Yes. About two and a half years ago.
D: So did you make all the phone calls, trying to get people together?
A: You know that I work here together with Chris. We worked with a couple of people and writing together. We did stuff for film and tele. That's actually how the whole thing was funded. Rough Trade only came in at the end, after it was already recorded and they just paid for the mixing.
D: Were the other original band members interested in rejoining?
A: Bill the drummer said that he was up for it, but he's got a band called the Fairies. Big John was definitely not interested, he's much more interested in accounting. He's bewildered about why we'd want to do it all again. It's a shame because he's a very good songwriter, Big John.
D: When you actually write the songs, what comes first, the words or the tunes?
A: For most of the songs on the recent album, Johnny came up with the chords, as he plays the guitar a lot, he's got some words and chords and we expand from that. Us three get together.
D: When would you say that you were closest to being big on the mainstream?
B: You had a lot of reviews around the "Manic, Majestic" time.
A: We had a lot of press coverage then, they certainly liked that. We've always been pretty weird, I don't think we've ever fitted in. Even if we could have fitted in, then Johnny does something completely different, which means there's no way it's going to be appropriate for most people's appetite.
D: How were the reviews for "Tracksuit Vendetta", as I was abroad at the time?
A: It hardly got any reviews. The record company, Ecuador were extremely lax. It was alter Rough Trade had gone bankrupt; it was Rough Trade's press manager that started the company. It was quite depressing as we spent a long time on that album.
D: Was the bad response one of the main reasons that you split up about then?
A: Well you know that we split up as that form and then played as Holy Joy. Apart from me, Chris and Johnny, it was a different lineup, Hacker was the guitarist. We signed with Chrysalis. We wrote quite a lot of songs in that period. Frannie, who was playing on Saturday night, was the drummer. We had a bass player called Neil, who was with Test Department.
D: Was that material recorded?
A: It was recorded but never released. Actually the Real Thing comes from that period.
B: We read from the Internet that the band was called Superdrug.
A: That's right. Superdrug was Johnny, Hacker, the bass player and Bill playing drums. I don't think that they had any official releases; they played with Alabama 3 quite a lot.
D: When you look back are there any live performances that especially stick in your mind?
I actually liked Saturday's at the 12 Bar, that was really interesting.
D: How about in the early days? It seemed that you performed mostly in London at the time.
A: I loved playing in Iceland that was really good; we played there a couple of times. We played Germany quite a lot. We're actually going to Germany in January.
B: What about Taiwan?
A: Definitely Taiwan. Though we've got to get the airfares.
D: It seems that you have quite a few fans in the US, it seems there is quite a worldwide mix in the fan base.
A: I'd love to go to play in New York. Jeff was talking about that last year. We've never played in America. I've played there in LA; after we split up I was living there.
B: How long were you in LA?
A: I was there for a year. It was great I loved it. Johnny loves New York. World Tour coming up. We could get those world tour plane tickets, couldn't we?
D: What are the prospects for the next album?
A lot is already there. It's not finished. Johnny has got some strong ideas for it.
B: On Saturday night we enjoyed a lot of new songs.
A: We've got more than another albums worth of new songs.
B: Who handles the relations with the record company?
A: Johnny, we have had a manager but we just sacked him.
D: Did you get through many managers in the early years? Just two, Flim Flam, they were excellent managers and Rough Trade. Then Nick, he was the one who took us to Russia, we played Lithuania, Russia and Siberia. That was really excellent. It was very strange; we were one of the first bands to play in places like Svedlosk in Siberia. These were closed towns and people were staring at us, asking, 'what are you doing here?'
B: So they were coming to see you out of curiosity, they didn't know your music.
A: They knew hardly any music, as they couldn't get hold of it at that time. We got on stage in Svedlosk and they shouted "captalistik, capitalistic". As before that it had just been Russian bands. Lithuania was fantastic as they had just got independence on that day, and the tanks were outside waiting to come in and everyone was really nervous. We played a gig and it was just wild. It was about the time "Positively" came
Out, as we did play some of those songs.
D: What are the plans for future gigs here?
A: We're going to do a gig here, hopefully in the metro cinema, called "music for adverts", we're going to play live to adverts being screened, we're going to do that with the Popular Society next door. Also we're going top play the 12 Bar just before Christmas.
B: Was anything recorded that night?
A: No, we try to film everything. We've got loads of films from Russia, we should compile together and make available to people. We may release a single of a version of "Waiting for a Day" we did with Digital Disco on a house label. We're going to play at the Eden Project in Cornwall next July, possibly with Moby; they have a big festival planned that Johnny is organizing. We're going to be doing a gig with her (dj lulu) in Cambridgeshire in October. When we work with her we'll be called Holy Joy and with the band, we'll be called the Band of Holy Joy.
D: Has the "Hugh Grant" video had any airplay yet?
A: It's been shown in Germany. There are some fans there that are quite powerful. And Carlton here has said they're interested in playing it. It was actually quite cheap to make, we did it with the Popular Society next door.
B: Do you plan to have any CD singles? As you had no CD singles from Love Never Fails.
A: Rough Trade didn't want to put any singles out. As in this country it's impossible to get any radio play. Except maybe on Radio 3 or Radio 2.
D: Did John Peel never take to the BOHJ?
A: He was into Holy Joy at the very beginning. They did a session and then Big John went to see John Peel and said, 'can we have our money please?' He wanted money for the session, as at the time they were so skint, and after that he never played us again. It's a grudge. I've never heard it and I suppose they've still got it. That was around the time of "Big Ship Sails". There are some DJs that like Holy Joy, but it's the producers who decide what's going to be played.
D: I guess myself and Ben on our radio show have probably played the band more than any other DJs.
A: People in Taiwan must have thought, 'what the hell is that?'
B: I play a lot of Holy Joy songs on my show.
D: I played "Fishwives", the show was prerecorded so by the time it was broadcast I was already back in London, so I couldn't get in trouble with the station manager.
B: Do you know if "Love Never Fails" has sold well in other countries?
A: I know that it's sold better in Germany than here.
D: Do you know how the earlier albums did?
A: Tracksuit Vendetta only sold about 700 copies. That was a bit depressing.
D: Was Manic the first album with guitars?
A: Yes before that there were no guitars at all. It was quite a shock really. It started with just ukulele and banjos.
B: Now there are more guitars.
A: That's working with Paul Sampson, the producer and also Johnny starts the songs with a guitar. He's played guitar since "Positively Spooked", but he's only played on stage twice, I think. He played "Trafalgar Square" live a couple of times. I try to get him to play live, but he's too embarrassed, too shy.
D: It seems there was a big gap between once the record was recorded and releasing "Love Never Fails".
A: Yes, that's the record company again, we were ready to go a year before.